Add v2 extenders as distinct from Xbox 360 extenders since the two have different capabilities?

Here's my scenario:

A single MCE PC, driving two screens. One screen is part of a home theatre setup, and needs digital audio. The other screen is a normal TV elsewhere in the house, and needs analog audio.

I can do this with MCE2005. I can't do it with Vista, as far as I am aware. If you can write a white paper that explains how to do this, I'd be interested.

Absolutely outstanding! I can't wait to see what happens.

I just want to ensure that if it works on one system (MCE) it works the same on the other (360 extender), personally! All the rest is gravey on the potatoes!

You should add Windows Mobile to the list...

I am especially interested in Scenario #5. I have three Media Centers and would love to be able to access them all from a single XBOX 360 in my living room--giving me access to the various shows recorded on each without needing to reconfigure the XBOX extender to point at a different machine each time.

Thanks!

7) Multiple Windows Media Center machines
8) Multiple Windows Media Center machines + Windows Home Server

I think the exclusion of these scenarios is very telling (note no extenders here). Personally I'm much more interested in 7 than 8; Client/Server has it's place but peer based is more more interesting (I think more realistic too).

I would add windows media player (WMP) to the mix, since MCE, works off the WMP database and from what I understand the zune software (both old and new) also works off, or is a variant of, WMP.

I think having both a separate zune software and WMP is a great example where there should of been more communication between the two groups that should of developed just a single media player that works for both zune and non-zune folks, dare it say it....like itunes!

I am initially most interested in Andy vt's #7
Multiple Windows Media Center machines.

I would then want
Multiple Media Center machines + V2 extenders.


I would actually make the list this way:
1) Standalone Windows Media Center machine.
2) Multiple Windows Media Center machines. (Hive)
3) One or more Windows Media Center machine(s) + Windows Home Server. (Client/Server)
4) Any of the above with any mix of the following added:
. . . a) XBox 360(s) (Sorry, don't know the difference between Media Experience & Media Center Extenders)
. . . b) V2 Extenders
. . . c) SoftSled Extenders
. . . d) Zune

From a user experience, there should be no functional difference between 4a, 4b, & 4c.

I would argue that there is a difference between core architecture (1, 2, 3) and the addition of pure clients (Item 4).

I currently have 1 MCE (2005), 1 XP, & 1 Vista Ultimate(no tuners - not used as VMC), plus an SBS2003 server.
My next move will be to upgrade the MCE to VMC.
Then I will either get a second VMC or a V2 extender.

Ultimately, I will have:
2 TVs that have VMCs
Bedroom TV that needs a V2 extender
Office that needs either SoftSled on the PC or a V2 on the TV.
Kitchen TV that needs a V2
Kitchen PC that probably doesn't need anything.
Server that runs website, DHCP, Exchange, User Accounts, & Domain controller. This will probably be upgraded to SBS2008 as I don't think Windows Home Server will ever do all of this.
I *MAY* add a Windows Home Server, I don't know.

I would add "Add networked audio player(s) to any of the above."

I am thinking of pure audio devices like the Roku Soundbridge rather than networked video players.

May be out of scope ( or your control for now) would be DirectTV integration. Great to see this effort Charlie.

Thanks.

MikeB.

That's a good list, but here's my situation to add some complexity:
I have 2 households (both alike in dignity, but not in cable subscriptions). I am connected between them via Hamachi.

One household has 2 Media Centers (an XP and Vista MCE) and 2 satellite laptops (one XP, one Vista Ultimate). Occupants with regular laptops (i.e. no tuner) want to watch something on one or the other MCE boxes in their room (I will be adding a Windows Home Server to the mix, maybe that will fix it) without jumping through a lot of hoops. "Media Sharing" in Vista looks like it does something interesting, but in practice I haven't been able to get it working. It seems like my Vista laptop with MCE should see my real MCE and "fence" programming to me as though it were an extender.

Also, I might want to sync audio, slide show, or video between different rooms of the same house coming off of one Media Center so that at a party, people could hear and see the same thing walking from room to room. This could either be from a Media Center or from a laptop I hooked up to speakers, or if I got a Sonos or something like that.


1,500 miles away, I would like to watch what's on my Media Centers in the other household. This household just has laptops, no MCE to speak of. I am trying with WebGuide (but for some reason I can't always get connected). I used to use Orb...

Add a Zune and Windows Mobile 6 to any of those scenarios.

Another Zune instance: while I'm away from the Media Centers, I am taking ZuneTVWatcher (I created a subfolder to RecordedTV and plop recordings in that) and accessing it via Hamachi, am squeezing down recorded TV and FTP'ing it to my Zune so I can watch it on planes and stuff. I used to do this with my PSP too.

TTFN

In terms of scenarios - i would say it would be combinations of any of the following devices:

0-N mediacenters
0-1 WHS boxes
0-N zunes (and lets be realistic - ipods or other mp3 players)
0-N WM6 devices
0-N xbox 360 (either in extender mode or not)
0-N v2 extenders
0-N regular xp/vista/other clients

The scenarios you called out pretty much cover the basics, though points for each meaningful third party device or service supported (ipod, sonos, napster, etc)

Great idea Charlie. for me it is no5 plus a UMPC that I would like to watch live TV from.
In other words a software Extender. My wife thinks its great that she can watch recorded tv on her laptop in any room but can't get why Live TV will not work

We have a desktop (that will soon get converted to a Home Server), several laptops, a 360 and 5(!) Zunes. Oh, I would love to get our DirectTV setup to integrate into that.

Charlie, what you are working on is much needed and will bring clarity & simplicity to connected entertainment. The major missing item from your list is Windows Mobile. A couple things I think help bring things together...

- Have the ability to turn PCs into extenders on home network. Its a wonder that you can spend alot of money/time setting up a Media Center system which can't be taken advantage of from other PCs on your home network. A software based extender needs to find its way to Media Center. I'm not talking about Orb or other similiar solutions...but something that retains the look & feel just like a hardware extender does. Ideally, Media Center on PCs should be able to toggle between two modes (standard/extender) of operation.

- Windows Mobile needs a dramatically improved connected entertainment experience. As of now, its disconnected from Zune and Media Center experience.

- Scale Media Center to Windows Home Server. Goal of connected entertainment should also minimize the number of devices that need to be left on. With WHS being a 24x7 device, its ideally suited to serve Media Center applications. I can understand why some at Microsoft might fret a porting it, especially the LiveTV/Tuner aspects. But I would argue that hard work needs be done. And if not, at least make WHS be able to serve Media Center applications and be IPTV compatible.

- Further unification of interfaces on Media Center, Extenders, Zune and Windows Mobile.

- Unify Microsoft Marketplaces on XBox, Zune and Media Center. For example, XBox Marketplace on XBox makes sense if thats the only entertainment ecosystem you have on your network. But if you have Media Center, don't you want to take advantage of what XBox MarketPlace has to offer via Media Center. That way, if I download a movie I can play it back on any connected device on my home network.

#5 plus windows mobile and UMPC. Successful integration will be the key to market leadership and market share in my opinion.

Ultimately, what I'd like to see is a scenario where a Windows Home Server acts a server for v2 extenders, X-Box 360's, Vista Media Centers, and multiple Zunes (syncing).

I'm almost there now. I've got a VMC with a couple of X-Box 360's and one Zune. The WHS really would need to tie this all together. The WHS also has to do the recordings so that I only need one system on 7x24.

Here's another great example of MS products not working together. Obviously you haven't started your "effort" yet:

http://zuneinsider.com/archive/2007/11/06/like-it-don-t-like-it-the-new-zune-rating-system.aspx

To summarize, the new zune software will use a like/dislike rating system instead of the five star system. This means that years of ranking songs on WMP so that I can have autoplaylists on WMP and MCE are thrown out the window (pun intended). Basically, I can't take my songs on the go and keep my same auto playlists and ratings.

I've already said in a earlier comment that MS should of just stuck with one media player for zune and non-zune folks in order to keep things simple, but this is just ridiculous.

You missed an easy one: Sideshow support. I would love for my future home to heavily utilize digital picture frames, alarm clocks with "today" screens, IM'ing devices, and other smart devices. This could really be a massive draw for enthusiasts. Microsoft needs to start producing hardware if no one else is going to, if only to jump-start the market. I know this isn't generally Microsoft's culture, but it's the reason Apple is doing so well.

As others have pointed out, good WM6 and Zune support for media synchronization and network streaming is a must. It's a little lackluster now.

More attention should be paid to the home automation market - Insteon, X10, those sorts of technologies. A HA controller with Sideshow and Media Center support would be really neat!

Audio-only and picture-only extenders are an interesting idea, but I don't think Microsoft needs to fill that particular role - UPnP will do it, and Microsoft is finally on board with that standard.

Someone else brought up that rolling WHS's features into SBS 2008 would be a good thing. I definitely agree. WHS and SBS 2008 can co-exist as separate SKUs, but I don't see why SBS 2008 can't manage WHS' duties if the user wants that. Small businesses need easy backups and storage! :)

Finally, some integration with Microsoft's Office Comms server. Even if it's just simple stuff like "you've got voicemail!", or providing options to lower the volume on media center if certain phones ring.

I guess the key is to remember that enthusiast and small business software are sometimes going to be overlapping in their target market. Provide options for people who want to play in the high-end - these will ultimately be the people telling their friends on the lower-end what to buy :).

(*Jedi mind trick* DVD changer streaming support to extenders! *Jedi mind trick*)

Don't forget Windows Media Connect / Zune Sharing, which is an important part of slinging music around the house. There's a disconnect between media center and connect, which would be nice to address. With network sharing disabled in Vista by default and users not knowing how to turn it on or secure it, users run into ease of use problems sharing their content (located on a central vista server/home server) with the living room (vista media center -> wireless network -> 360) and to other rooms (vista media center -> wireless network -> roku/laptops/gateway one in the kitchen) without a lot of advanced config. One of the things I love connect is it's security and easy of use. But the living room is a completely different system. It would be nice if the whole system was simpler to setup and more homogeneous.

1. Let Home Server take over the Media Center fuctnionality of distributing live tv or other resources (pictures, etc.) and access it all through hardware and/or software extendors. It would reduce hardware cost and network complexity.
2. Allow any network connected PC or extender with appropiate permissions access to Television, movies, as well as the video, pictures, etc. with the appropiate limitations, e.g. two tuners already showing live tv to two devices, third cannot access it, etc.

Scenario #5 is my ideal media center setup (along with Satellite tuners and two-way cablecard... sorry, I had to get that in there).

I want a WHS machine as my centralized media center, storage and remote access server, I'd like to be able to use MCE PC's as clients as well as v2 extenders/xbox360's. I'd like to be able to remotely access my media content thru WHS while on the road with my laptop, schedule recordings, etc..

And, while I do really like the job that you guys have done on the Zune device itself (I prefer's it's UI over the ipod) I do think you need to figure out how to bring itunes into your media world (as seemlessly as possible). Continue with Zune, but for now recognize that itunes/ipod are the defacto standard for audio in most homes.

It's more of a bug than a scenario but the integration between MCE and Remote Desktop could be better and might want to be brought into the discussion. In my scenario, I use my MCE machine connected to a tv with a long video cable but only want to control it from a remote, but there are times when i want to fix or upgrade some software on the box, so I Remote Desktop into the box. This causes all sorts of hell to the system and I basically have to open up a command prompt on the Remote Desktop machine and force it to reboot (e.g. shutdown -f -r) to get the system working again properly.

It's a nit, but in the bigger scheme of things, I think there are people that want an MCE box that's headless that they can shove in an attic or somewhere where noisy fans and hard drives don't have an impact, and be able to use extenders to view the content on the box.

my setup is

multiple vista mcs machines(2x desktop + 1 x laptop) + Pocket pc phone(vario II, vario) + windows home server + webguide(for viewing tv at work and on the pda) + xbox 360 as a extender

what we need is mce on the home server (for tv cards etc) then a way to add thoses tunners/mce to the client machines to watch tv(like the extender) live tv ,guide and share vidos and music etc direct from the server(ie softsled) etc

this how it should have worked from day one :P

thanks

Awesome to hear there is even a possibility that meetings such as this might happen at MS. I can't wait for the MS Connected Home to work the way it should. Lots of great ideas, I would just like to echo a couple:
1. MHS + 360 + Zune (in other words, no MCE in the mix)
2. any piece of this talking to DirecTV would be the best (I realize this is probably out of scope of your meeting, but just want to tell someone at MS that would listen)

Lastly (although probably also out of scope and will never happen), open up the video codec support of everything, or at least give us some software that will encode WMV and 5.1 audio easily.

WHS - Should be a Media Center Tuner Farm/MCE functions and all the great things it can do now. (mControl automation, etc) But the tuners would be the builders choice. (Cable Card, Direct TV Tuner/STB's with USB interface, IPtv, Etc.)
Extenders - Your choice of SoftSled, v2's or 360's

MAKE DIRECT TV tuner Card integration into Media Center a reality PLEASE! I can deal with the rest of the Media Center/WHS/Zune issues.

I would like to see the merging of Windows Home Server and Media Center, and perhaps a wireless home automation component (Zigbee?), though I have yet to use it beyond my Logitech Harmony remote.

I'd also like to see a, "Buy anywhere, Watch anywhere" merging of the Marketplaces in Xbox 360, Zune, and Media Center.

A audio solution. If the new extenders could be treated as adding "zones" (video/audio) to your home, a usb 2.0 attached audio solution that would power speakers throughout your home in rooms that do not have extenders (interfaces) in them. Rooms like dining rooms, bathrooms, screen porches, other outside speakers. Just have several connectors on the back, say enough to power six pairs of speakers (if people want to add more than one audio unit, then they can giving them more areas). Then say a new option on the U/I be "My Home" or "My Zones" in which you can label these locations from your main Media Center, and be able to push video/audio or just audio to any of these locations that you want to.

Also add the ability to setup the online interfaces for XM or Sirus under the "My Radio" section.

Create an All-In-One XBOX that has full Media Center (not Windows OS, just MCE) capabilities with HD-DVD built-in (not added). And give the owner the ability to upgrade the unit as high as they want. Give them the ability to add tuners (see Niveus) and to add storage in the same way for the DVR functions. There by allowing the owner to continue to upgrade there unit to the level they want.

Oh Yeah!! DirecTV PLEASE!!!!

At the moment I have both my windows media center and my windows home Server turned on all the time. Please put the recoring asepcts and tuners into Windows Home Server. Then the shell on XBOX360, Extenders and Other PC's. My Electricty bill is huge now thanks to haveing to have both machiens turned on all the time.

Charlie thank you for this opportunity. It is nice to see the input of the community is sought and welcomed. As an enthusiast and owner of a new home automation business, I am excited about the potential the MS Connected Home (CH) has for the industry.

I would be curious to hear your perspective on where WHS fits into the bigger picture at MS? Several others have expressed a desire to see MCE integrated into WHS. Having the server become the central hub for the CH makes sense.

1. Runs like an appliance – not a typical Vista config (stable)
2. Offers data storage and backup (practical)
3. Allows for future expansion (scalable)

…among many other benefits. It seems like this type of offering would be have greater appeal among consumers who may not see all the benefits or be able to justify the expense of owning a media center simply for the entertainment value.

The data storage and backup is a practical solution for most homes and to get that along with the benefits of a media center would be more justifiable for the average middle-class consumer.

Users consume content on a range of devices that have a corresponding range of performance capabilities. These users also have a range of expectation for the quality/fidelity of how that content is rendered on their various devices. For example, I could accept minimal quality for playback of a ringtone on my cell phone but would expect nothing less than the best possible playback on my home entertainment system.

Users also expect that they can play purchased content on any of their devices without being required to purchase a new license for each device. If I purchase a video of a concert recorded in a high-definition, multi-channel audio format with high-definition video, I would enjoy the ability to play that content in a compressed, 2-channel audio format with down-rez'd video on my Zune/iPod and at an even lower audio quality for my cell phone ringtone without paying for that content again.

I completely agree that the various stores (XBox, Zune Marketplace, etc.) need to be consolidated. But this single store should offer users a range of formats/quality to allow them to choose the highest quality content they would expect to play back. This range of formats could have a corresponding range of prices, but purchase of a particular quality level should give rights to all lower quality levels.

Charlie, I applaud your efforts here. Let me add the ideal system that would work in my household:

1. Windows Home Server as the point of storage for media center. This means recorded TV, music, everything. This would allow me to share media across other PCs, yet have a reasonably reliable storage story.

2. Extenders everywhere. Shouldn't matter whether you have a TV at that location or not (see next point)

3. Sideshow support. That means at the extender end-points, too. Why do I need a TV to play music? Perhaps I just want a lightweight, cool, quiet extender device which hooks up to some audio equipment? This would also solve the mult-zone problem. All you'd need is a non-DVD extender and an amp for your speakers. We've all heard of Sideshow for awhile now, yet nothing has ever been released to the public. (note: Same thing with the v2 extenders: Announced, but vaporware). Announcement should equate to availability.

4. Other choices in connectivity to digital HD TV content. Dish, DirectTV, Cable, etc. should be ubiquitous and easy to build into a system by the end-user. An OEM should not be necessary for those of us who have the know-how and the equipment already in our posession. For the masses, sure OEM makes sense. To me, this is the primary reason I'm not flocking to Velocity Micro or other OEM: I can build a better machine (already have) that is both quiet and reliable yet costs less. At the glacial pace I see this improving, MCE will become irrelevant.

With the advent of Multi-core machines, etc, I see no reason not to consolidate funtionality of your products into 1 single platform. Bottom line is the average consumer is not going to buy a PC for HTPC, a PC for Windows Home Server, and have an additional PC..etc.

You need to look at incoorporating the media center functionality within the Windows Home Server platform or vice versa. One box that stores all your media and can playback media as well. In a perfect world, I would like to see ONE BOX MANAGE ALL. There is no reason why this can't be done now.

In my perfect world I would have one Quad-Core/4GB memory..etc beefy machine that runs a version of Windows Home Server with either a new IMPROVED Media Center Front End,with greater CODEC campatibilty, IPTV, HD Format support natively..etc.

All this functionality would then be available by Media Extenders and Xbox 360. I would also include Security Integration/Home Automation, VoIP, Caller ID. Make this the all obtainable platform that it can be.

Just please make the music easier and better. copy winamp please

Maybe us enthusiast are just shooting for the stars and hoping for a computer that can handle everything from remote access, home automation, HD Live TV streaming and back-up duties. I mean who wouldn’t want just one machine running at all times. But if I have to settle for one server machine for the back-up and home automation. Then another Quad-Core super machine that would handle HD Live TV and Recorded TV streaming, DVD cataloging, etc that would also be on 24 hours a day, I can handle this. If I had the ability to build my own Media Extenders using a Softsled program and added my DirecTV tuner cards (PLEASE make this a reality!). Until we conquer these hurdles then the digital home can not take off. So stick with:

1. WHS
2. A super Media Center
3. Touch screen Sideshow Devices
4. Cable Card and Satellite Tuner Cards
5. Softsled Extencders for DIY crowd

I like many of MS's products but they seem to just miss the mark. Many of the problems i think stem from the fact that you try to compete and partner with the same people but you don't put your self on thier same level when you compete. I like that MS is a fierce competetor but you also need to be fair and open. When you compete with your partners you need to pretend you are not part of windows. Remember when it comes to media there are many platforms you need to address to be completely connected. For instance on the mobile front you have Symbian, Palm, iPhone, RIM, and WinMo. All of these platforms need to be considered equally when developing software for a truely connected expierience. When you guys developed "Windows Live" You completely missed the point. I understand the premise but you miss out on a whole lot of potential customers if you arbitrarily tie your service to one platform even if is in name only. Do you think someone using a Mac is going to Google, or Windows live. Do you think someone using a nokia with symbian is going to use Windows live services? To the average user the windows live name infers that this will only work on windows products. I know this seems to be a little off topic but i think it is at the core of the problem. So with this in mind, this is what I would like to see. I would like to see 3 different user expierences. First expierence is totaly MS's vision from the ground up (ie. Xbox and ZUNE). Second is MS framework that has foundations with MS but is extended by third parties. Third expierence is totally not MS but interacts with ms products seamlessly through liscenced protocols and formats. Now MS does do this to an extent but the key factor missing is that all tools from all levels need to be availble and used when possible in the products. For example if sony wanted to include a media center extender in the ps3 but one that fit PS3 not Typical Ext. Then MS would licsence the ablity to make a custom ext that had all of the functions of an MS ext but not the look. THis Way MS competes and Partners With Sony at thesame time. But MS wins Either way because MS is leading the vision and is making money on both deals. (Xbox should also have a custume ext tightly intergrated in the one gui instead of two.) Softsled and media player for mac would also be good start. Second MS needs to compete by being better rather than by locking in or supporting only thier own services. A prime example of this would be the lack of codec support in media center extenders xbox and zune. I've heard the reasons before about why other codecs are not supported but if you really want meida to just work then the consumer has to be oblivious to the codec or DRM for that matter.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE
*WHS combine with WMC + support for Digital Cable, IPTV (Even non MS), SAT, HD Radio, XM, Sirrius, ect...
*Ubiquitious support for WMA,WMV,VC-1,DVR-MS,MP3,OGG,FLAC,AAC,Mpeg-4,Divx,Xvid,ect.. in all MS products.
*First rate support for non ms platforms: Mac,Unbutu,Symbian,Palm,RIM,iPhone,ect..
*Remove the store from zune, and WMP and make them web based (Use Silverlight) so no new software to install.
*Eliminate ZMP, and combine with WMP... Make WMP the Best out there. Make it fast and lightweight.
*Music, Movies, TV, Games ultimate subscription service that works across many different platforms.
*Higher quality media with lyrics, subtitles, alt languages, multichannel, hidef, ect... Maybe different quality for different price points. Be better than iTunes by providing choice.
*Xbox Mobile with media and Phone capabilities.
*WMP for iPhone. LOL
*2 different GUI for WinMo... One for business users, one for the average consumer that is more media focused.
*combine Xbox and Mediacenter, IPTV GUI into One custome GUI for XBOX So I don't have to Change between GUIs all the time.
*I love my Media Center, Xbox, and ZUNE, but they just don't work togeather or as fully as I would like.
*Xbox with Blu-Ray, HD Dvd, DVD, CD, Combo Drive.
*Remote Storage of Xbox games, media, ect on network drive like on WHS, Saved Games, and profile saved in Cloud.
*Integrated xbox into future tvs when it becomes economical. Would be very wife friendly.
*Zone Audio Capabilities in WHS
*All my media accessable from any smart phone on the market.

One other improvement I'd like to see:
1. Easy, predictable media library which is common across all users (including the magic extender users like MCX1). Today's use of Media Player's library is simply awful.

Not really sure what the idea behind this is supposed to envision, Microsoft has this way of thinking that everyone is going to be doing the same things with there machines. For the home, it's playing games via xbox (windows games?) or listening to music via zune (ipod?) or watching tv right up against there faces with media center edition. Fact is that it's not the case; peopole use there pc's for a multitude of things, this new home center should allow for PC's to play xbox games, it should stream video's to all the TV's and PC's and Zunes in the house. It should have a terminal service to all devices in the network. xbox zune tablet tv all of them should come under the jurisdiction of this device. this server this HOME server.

My house has 5 computers (one vista, 3 xp,1 2k laptop) in a mixed WIFI and gigbit lan with a cable ISP environment. 2 ipods and 4 tv's with 2 xboxes. I use one for windows 2003 active directory, and the rest for gaming. I have lan parties and game tourni's all the time. Backups and finding files are my troubles. Anti-virus and defending the network is a hassle. this is because of the fact that it's distributed. Now, active directory should have a base mapped drive for all it's users to map there My Documents to, it should have several softer authentication methods, not just a user and pass. this server should be able to handle that, as well as VOIP communication services. it needs to handle of this.


so

1. media storage that's backed up and easily accessed to everyone. (media center)
2. profiling system based on family roles, that require some setup (parent, child, teen user groups)(active directory)
3. Video hosting for multiple devices all at the same time (3 or 4 streaming video's all at the same time)
4. central location for all music, video, pictures, games. which is allowed to he shared within the network to all units (my jazz her rock, our kids rap...our photos all viewable from everywhere on any of our devices.)
5. terminal services for any and all connected devices
6. Maintainable services of nodes on the network(SMS)
7. Game hosting platform from which multiple games based off of the Xbox or an xbox emulation on windows machines for lan parties and duel gaming solutions.
8. Comprehensive antivirus backup and updates of all machines/devices on the network.

Vista Media Center + DirecTV PCI card + 360 + Zune + Windows Mobile

I'm disappointed that Charlie has not responded to our comments yet, but he has 2 new blog entries.

Currently we only have two Vista machines, two XP machines, one laptop running 95 (!?), a Linux/TabletOS Nokia thing, an old CE 4.2 based iPAQ and some kinda CE 2.0 thing. Heh. No 360. No Zunes. No extenders. The reason is simple: Nothing works with anything else.

I've been preaching about "watching and recording TV on computers" since before Media Center was even an idea. (Think like 1993 era.) I was so happy to finally get Media Center up and running on one of the PC's only to learn that we wouldn't be able to tune Cable without buying a new PC. Then I found out DirecTV/Dish support still didn't exist, over a year after it was announced at CES. QAM works but it's hard to set up and doesn't offer anything that OTA ATSC offers and you have to pay for it each month. I was also disappointed to learn that there's nothing in Media Center to view all of your on-disk videos in any type of organized way. The "Videos" area in Media Center is a total mess. You can drill down to your folders that contain "Movies" and "Television" and "Family Videos", etc, etc, but it's nowhere near what it should be (think "dvd library").

After being completely disappointed with the video aspect of Media Center, I moved on to audio. Since Media Player supports "Media Sharing" over MTP, I totally assumed Media Center would as well. I had no idea there was literally zero support for MTP in Media Center. Yeah we can set up shares and use Windows Networking but that requires security and stuff that really isn't easy for non-tech people to deal with. And why should I have to deal with that anyway when MTP is perfectly capable of sharing media over the network? As far as I can tell, the 360 doesn't support MTP either. Is WMP11 (on Vista) the only thing left that supports MTP? The Zune sure doesn't. The Zune software does say it will share to the 360, apparently using something other than MTP. But we don't have a 360 and don't want one anyway. The Zune software apparently won't share to other Vista machines or XP machines either which leads me to believe that you can't totally switch over to the Zune software, you have to keep using and maintaining WMP11 to share stuff between machines. Oddly, the Nokia TabletOS thing works flawlessly with MTP.

So right now I have a Vista machine that won't share media to another Vista machine that's running Media Center. I have two Vista machines that won't share media to either of the XP machines, but the XP machines will share to the Vista machines, however that media can only be consumed in Media Player, not Media Center. Media Player doesn't work with my Media Center remote so Media Player is worthless which means the ability to share from a Vista or XP machine to a Vista machine is useless since you can't control Media Player from the couch. I have an iPAQ that has Media Player but it won't work with WMP11 on Vista or XP, so I have to sync to an SD card and move the card from machine to machine to get media onto the iPAQ. The other CE device won't even play MP3's so it's basically worthless. None of these things has a Podcast client, except IE7 but it won't download shows greater than 15 MB. There's also no way to navigate or easily find the downloaded Podcasts from Media Center making the IE7 solution worthless. The Zune client does have a Podcast downloader but the Zune software doesn't share to XP, Vista or Media Center and won't sync to the iPAQ. TVTonic is a temporary solution but its interface really sucks and there’s no way to sort by date, you’re locked into their “channels” scheme. It also lacks a simple way to share what it’s downloaded to other devices.

I would build another Vista computer and use it as a set-top box except that it wouldn't support CableCARDs and probably won't support DirecTV/Dish when that stuff comes out. The existence of SoftSled might change things a bit since we could get around the lack of MTP in all of this current generation stuff (except for WMP11) by setting up one Vista machine as a server and having the rest of the machines in the house connect to it as SoftSled Extenders. We’d still have to use the crappy Dish STB to watch TV but at least we could consume media from our PC’s in the living room. However, there’s a problem with that too since it seems that MTP doesn’t support any type of MPEG-4 media (Xvid/DivX/h264) or MOV containers or MKV containers. Right now there's simply no compelling reason to use Media Center as an STB. Extenders are too expensive and the 360 is too loud.

At some point soon I will be buying a Windows Home Server. I’ve read that there are no plans to put a sort of "TV Server" like service into WHS but I, and apparently others, feel that this is a bad idea. This would obviously require some sort of SoftSled type thing or maybe a solution similar to the HDHomeRun where the driver emulates a device and the actual hardware is available on the LAN. Everyone, including the MediaPortal people think this is a great idea, except for Microsoft. There are many reasons why this is a great idea but the most important is that client machines get rebooted and they can’t be rebooted while they are recording something. If the TV hardware was moved into WHS, the chances of a recording being interrupted go way down. Yeah, in a perfect world we’d never have to reboot but let’s be realistic here, even Vista gets updated from time to time and missing a recording because of a security patch, a required driver update or even a bluescreen is unacceptable.

Almost forgot, native support of HD-DVD/BlueRay in Media Center is a must.

Hi,

I did a short video and post a web site along the same topic except I am trying to sell the product in Fairbanks Alaska and I am using only one computer.
I have check the WMC but it would not be my choice to run one of my system.
On my video, I left out a lot of features out but I will post more videos as I go.
My web site is in development but you might find already some ideas for your project.
Showing my video to friends, I found out the vast majority did not grasp what they were watching.
So, I had to write some scenarios to explain my point of vue.
Tony

Here is a a few of my thoughts of scenarios and why. My main point would be that you are leaving out 2 of the most used and important devices that people have in notebooks and pocket computers. Notebooks includes tablets and UMPCs, 2 devices Microsoft has pushed. The main requirment I have that might not be possible until the next XBox is that the XBox 360 would be a server, local storage, and TV recorder, and wouldn't connect to the MCE interface.

SCENARIOS
1) MCE Laptop + XBox 360 + Zune + Windows Mobile
2) XBox 360 + Zune + Windows Mobile
3) Home Server OR MCE Desktop + Any combination of scenario 1 above

WHY
1) Many users only have a laptop for different reasons, mainly cost and simplicity, and this is becoming even more common.
2) It's a hassle and inconvenient for many reasons to have to connect to the MCE on the XBox and have a separate interface that isn't the main XBox interface. Also, why can't someone just have an XBox 360 and use services and content on it, connecting it with their Zune, without having a computer.
3) Statistically, not very many people want, use, or setup the tuners and remote in their computer, but would rather have that in the XBox or a device in the entertainment room.
4) Don't forget about Windows Mobile, an area Microsoft has focused on heavily for years, and which is still growing.

DETAILS
- Media should be able to be streamed, copied, and synced to end devices MCE desktop, MCE laptop, XBox 360, Windows Mobile, and Zune from server devices Home Server, MCE desktop, MCE laptop, and XBox 360.
- Note the XBox 360 is a server, local storage, and can be connected to for content from the other devices. Recorded TV and guide, with external or internal tuner in XBox 360, could be on XBox 360 hard drive, because that is where you watch TV most.
- The interfaces to connect to content on your local device's hard drive, to a local server device, and through the internet to services would be different on each device. However, the content behind the service would be the same. The main example is that the XBox wouldn't use the MCE interface but would have it's own, which is obviously already evolving.
- Each device and device entertainment interface would be a platform allowing companies and developers to create applications and services tailored to each device. In MCE, this would be the "Online Services" area, but on XBox it would be different services tailored for the XBox interface, and they would be different sevices on Zune and Windows Mobile too.
- However, Microsoft would keep it's own main service instead of just being a platform like it was with the old Windows Media Player, MCE Spotlight, and Plays for Sure. The service used would be the XBox Live/Zune service.

Munro, unlike you I strongly favor Media Center's UI over XBox's. I think trying to make XBox be the end all be all would add a lot of costs to a console that is trying to stay focused on gaming. Not to mention, Microsoft wants to give their hardware partners a chance to make some money instead of owning it all (hardwarewise). Frankly I'd rather see two devices that can be stacked ontop off each other in the living room.

Living Room Devices
- $500 Windows Home Server (no video output but serves the whole home with Media Center and Storage)
- $150 Extender or Gaming Console (connected to TV)

Study/Office
- $1000 Laptop that provides a windows client based Media Center Extender

I think Microsoft has done a great job of providing basic standalone media capabilities on XBox. And Media Center needs to keep offering a premium experience over what XBox has. Its troublesome to see XBox get IPTV before Media Center though.

Charlie, I know it is a bit late to comment on this post, but I just realized yesterday that there is another hole in my Xbox 360 + Vista Media Center setup: The new keyboard attachment I bought for the xbox controller doesn't work at all with Media Center. I still can't skip to a specific letter in the Artist or Song view and it doesn't even work when the cursor is in the search box. I don't know if this (non-returnable) keyboard ("chatpad"?) is going to get any use at all now, I assumed it would work everywhere...

Forgive the lateness of my response, but if you're still interested, I'd like to add my backing to a few of the points raised already. I only just saw your blog entry.

Definitely a good thing that MS are liaising with the user community on this.

My personal key items I'd like to see work better are:


1. [Maybe this is outside your remit although I see it was mentioned by others too] Including Windows Mobile 5/6 in the list would be great!!

A bit of a long-shot as I'm guessing this really would be beyond the remit, but how about this: [I don't know how similar the process of syncing a Windows Mobile device and a Zune is, but if they worked in a broadly similar way under the hood] it would be great if you could plug the two devices *directly* into the Xbox and have it connect through the Xbox to the ethernet network then on to a computer on the network it can sync with. The convenience here is that if your Media PC / WHS is tucked away in a home office, it's less accessible than say an Xbox in your bedroom/sitting room.

Perhaps from a Zune point of view, this might be less useful as they all have wifi built in, but if the Xbox is on a wired link (as mine is) it would still be much quicker than wifi; some WM devices also have wifi, but not all do.

Pre-trancoding files to fit on the WM device in advance would also be handy (it can take quite some time to do). It doesn't need to be a fancy UI, but some broad-strokes method (perhaps on a playlist level; e.g. Last 3 Episodes of Series XYZ, with an option to pre-transcode)

2. Also, I suppose it's covered by your inclusion of Xbox, but the hard-drive on the Xbox seems under-utilised to me. I use my Xbox in large part as a Media Extender (I do play a fair bit too) and it sits there mostly empty (and I've got the 20Gb one only). If you could push more cached content over to it, it might improve the Media Extender experience a little - you know those times when the thumbnails and lists of shows/music/pictures don't show up quickly. I appreciate not all Xboxs have the HD, so it would have to be a performance booster rather than a fundamental requirement.

3. Sirshannon's point about use of the Chatpad within the Xbox Media Extender UI is also very good (although I admit I hadn't tried it before, the idea makes perfect sense). Not the highest priority, but would be handy!

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One last point is perhaps some scripts/tools that allow us to better diagnose issues with connections etc for the devices and maybe do some basic admin (for the more advanced users). I've had a few situations where the library is out of sync across different devices, or things are wrong but it's hard to see why or what can be done to reset things.

This appears as if it will be an answer to a need I had last year year at this time and expecially when we bought xbox 360. I still haven't been able to get xbox on line because I can't uplock ports on my d-link. Would it be possible to chose a router known to work well with these products and address those as well. Understand this might be basic for some but for me it would be great.

2nd thing I haven't worked out yet is my removable hard drive that I would like to populate with movies bought on line. Would there be a problem taking the hard drive to another computer and running it on that machine. ie. would the license allow it. I don't know if the downloaded movie is tied to hard drive, computer or both. Thanks, my first blog entry. Wife suggest I look for it since I have been beating my head against wall trying to come up with answers. Oh and I am nothing but a believer in MS products.

Robert