Charlie Owen - Paul Thurrott Takes Us To Task Over Media Center in Windows Vista Beta

Thursday, October 20, 2005

Paul Thurrott Takes Us To Task Over Media Center in Windows Vista Beta

While our Windows Vista Community Technology Preview program is a mere two months old, we have already seen the benefit of letting the masses weigh in with feedback. Some of it very complimentary, some of it not so much. Good and bad, all of this feedback is very valuable to us in delivering the best Media Center experience possible.

Paul Thurrott is out with his latest review of Windows Vista based on pre-Beta 2 bits and bytes and really takes us to task for the new user experience and interface.

First of all, let me say while Windows Vista build 5231 does give you a sneak peek into Media Center it's not what we consider to be the 'best foot forward' build. Take anything you see, hear or experience yourself with regards to Media Center with a grain of salt until it is actually launched. That's when the all of the features will be in place and you will get a true sense for the user experience look and feel. In the meantime, keep the feedback coming on pre-release builds.

Also, expect changes to take place between this build and RTM -- so all the usual caveats apply (what I'm about to tell you may or may not be in the final release of the product...blah...blah...blah. You've heard this, yes? Yes. Good, let's move on.).

That said...

The first seven paragraphs of Paul’s review are mostly all negative comments without specifics. We can't really action on those, unfortunately. Feedback is always welcome -- honest to goodness, we really do want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. Feedback with actionable specifics is even better.

Taken at face value, I suspect his comments are mostly a fear of change -- Media Center is now on its fourth version and Paul probably feels as though it's in a good place; Don't fix what isn't broke, so to speak. I can sympathize. My wife gives me plenty of unvarnished opinions when I bring home builds with new or different features for us to try. Heck, sometimes even I get sick of the level and pace of change (just ask my co-workers).

In one of these seven paragraphs, Paul suggests the overall usability of Media Center in Windows Vista is seriously in doubt. I don't think so, but I'm willing to take a closer look.

For the record, I'm not a usability engineer or a designer. I have spent lots of time with those two teams here in eHome, and some amount of their knowledge has rubbed off on me while working with them in conjunction with partners in Online Spotlight. My goal with this post is to provide more information for the features Paul references so the community can evaluate with more context.

Let's get some apple to apple screenshot comparisons to use as the basis for our review and evaluations. All of these come from the exact same build Paul uses in his review (5231). Click on them to get a larger version.

Start Menu

Music Library

A basic indicator of usability is the number of steps necessary to accomplish a given task. Generally speaking, it is better for the user to take as few steps as possible to accomplish a task. I'm going to focus on two tasks Paul specifically calls out in his review: Search and Playlists.

For these tests we will start at the same place in the Start Menu...

'My Music' in the current released version of Media Center ('Emerald').
'Music Library' in the Windows Vista version of Media Center.

I believe the static screenshots above will allow you to count these for yourself...

How many steps does it take to view Playlists?

Current = Select My Music --> Down Button --> Down Button --> Select Playlists (4 Steps)
Media Center for Windows Vista = Right --> Select Playlists (2 Steps)

How many steps does it take to be able to search music?

There are actually two paths...

Current = Select My Music --> Up --> Select Search (3 Steps)
Media Center for Windows Vista = Left --> Select Search (2 Steps)

or

Current = Select My Music --> Down --> Down --> Down --> Down --> Down --> Select Search (7 Steps)
Media Center for Windows Vista = Right --> Right --> Right --> Select Search (4 Steps)

As you can see, the end user can get to these features with fewer steps in Media Center for Windows Vista, and that's a good thing for usability. These same efficiency gains are present in many other features as well. In fact, the Start Menu itself represents a fairly dramatic step in efficiency since it puts more features at the top level of Media Center. Does that mean the new paradigm is definitely usable? No. The data suggests it's more usable, but this single test is not enough for a definitive statement. Luckily, our usability team has been working interactively with a mix of experienced and non-experienced Media Center users to evaluate these approaches.

With regards to the Music Library feature, Paul states...

'Instead of the simplicity and beauty, we get ... ah... a jumbled mess of album art, arranged horizontally, not vertically (Figure).'

The screenshot Paul references in his review with '(Figure)' might make it appear that way -- but it's missing key metadata which I know should be present. I theorize this is due to...

The fact this is pre-beta software.
The machine might not have been setup properly and / or is experiencing issues.

The screenshots I've posted above and below are an accurate reflection of features as presented in build 5231. Based on those, what do you think? Love it or hate it? Why? Leave comments for us to read.

Another way of looking at usability is the ability of the user to easily find and identify items in their library. I will admit this test is more subjective than our first, but I think you will see the goodness we have introduced for the end user. Again, let's take a look at the screenshots above.

I can see more albums at a time...

Current = 12
Windows Vista = 27

I can get more detail (metadata) about those albums...

Current = Album Art, Album Title, Album Artist (3 Items)
Windows Vista = Album Art, Album Title, Album Artist, Number of Tracks, Total Time of Tracks, Album Year (6 Items)

And I have more sorting options at my fingertips (especially nice for those, like Thomas Hawk, with large libraries)...

Current = Album, Artists, Songs, Genres (4 Choices)
Windows Vista = Artist, Artists, Year, Provider, Date Added, Genres, Title, Year, Rating, Composers (10 Choices)

So, the net is I can see 225% more of my library at one time, get 200% more information about each album in my library and sort that library in 250% more ways. And the beautiful thing: None of text or images had to shrink in size to accomplish these improvements -- they are nearly (if not exactly) the same size.

Moving on, Paul calls out 'weird tilting and fading of the album art.' This actually isn't new. We have tilting in the current version of Media Center. For example, with the context sensitive More Information button illustrated here.

It *is* more pronounced or noticeable in this build of Media Center for Windows Vista. The team has been and is taking a close look at the right balance for this visual styling. What you don't see in these static screenshots is the animation from non-tilt to tilt, which provides a ton of context -- it makes much more sense once you experience the animation first hand. For those of you testing build 5231 now, feel free to leave feedback in the comments on the tilting feature -- we will be sure to read.

You don't actually have to select a sorting option with the OK button to accomplish basic sorting. As you navigate the choices left and right Media Center 'auto previews' what the choice looks like in the background. Once you move down from the choice we animate the preview to front and center. You can accomplish richer sorting by selecting the options with the OK button. Again, the animations provide wonderful context for the sorting -- without it, static screenshots only tell half the story.

Here are two examples of those options (sans animations, unfortunately, but hopefully they give you a better picture of the feature).

Example 1: Navigating the default sorting options.

Music Library Default View

I move up to navigate the sorting options to the left and right. The sorting option grows larger and brighter while the library 'tilts' to help me keep track of where focus is moving and prepares to preview the sort.

I navigate right to the artist sorting option. The 'tilted' preview automatically changes.

Here I have navigated down from the sorting option. The tilted preview automatically snaps to front and center, and the artist name grows larger and brighter.

Example 2: Navigating richer sorting options.

Music Library Default View

Here I have navigated up to the sorting options...

...and selected one of them with the remote OK button to get additional sorting options. In this case, I'm going to sort by year.

Here is the view of my music library view after selecting to sort by year.

After reading Paul’s review and my thoughts here, what do you think...?

Are we on the right track, or have things gone horribly awry?

Leave comments for the team to read -- we value your feedback.

Categories: Media Center | Comments [52] |

| Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:07:43 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:08:08 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I think part of it is that Paul is just pretty happy with the current MCE & it's tough seeing your baby change faces :-)

I was the same way, when i first saw Vista MCE, i was horrified. The more I used it, the more i got to like it. And the more Features i learned of it, I fell in love with it.

The question i present the MCE team & you as well Charlie (sup buddy), is, what steps are/will you take to ensure that users *are* aware of all the features now available, or more importantly, make sure the transition from 2005 to Vista is smooth. Not sure how to do it, but many of us have been using MCE since its inception, and it might cause some shock to see a feature suddenly moved.

ShadyMG (Mike Garcen)

Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:32:20 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Good question, Mike.

First: We have design and usability teams dedicated to making sure our feature user experiences are of high quality and provide top notch usability.

Second: We have an end user beta program specifically targeting Media Center users as we have had for every prior release of Media Center.

Third: We have the Community Technology Preview program, allowing broad distribution of builds for people to use and provide feedback.

Fourth: We 'eat our own dogfood' by running builds in our offices, our homes. A good majority of us (yours truly included) subject our families to the features we design and implement. Believe it or not, we are our own best critics. I've yet to meet a team member who won't come right out and say 'this feature bites, and here is why...' when evaluating this stuff.

Fifth: You have team bloggers such as Aaron, Matt, Michael (and myself) out here sharing information with and participating in the community and soliciting feedback.

And that's just off the top of my head. What else do you think we can or should be doing?

Charlie Owen

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:10:08 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

First of all, Mr. Thurrott is only a journalist in the very loosest sense of the word. He's a self-aggrandizing twit whose priorities are, roughly:

1) Remind everyone how he broke the news first
2) Wildly exaggerate the slightest hint of a rumor or allegation and post it as fact
3) Point out that he already broke that story, yawn, last month
4) Take credit for any product change for the better
5) Ensure everyone knows that he's already written about this, and before everyone else did, too

This writeup mostly serves as the groundwork for what I'm sure is to be many future articles on Windows Media Center Edition. He's taken a very early, interim build and attempted to compare it to the polished quality of a 3rd generation product. Surely the great Mr. Thurrott would know something about how products are built and refined over time, being such a voracious follower of all things Microsoft. I see a few things happening:

1) Several future articles with choice quotes like "Windows Media Center Edition, which was first covered by me here" or "refer to my exclusive first-look here" or even "see my original article, which is now revered as scripture by Bill himself."
2) At least one future article just clamoring how good the future build of MCE is, which no doubt will have only occurred because of this, Mr. Thurrott's seminal "call to action," which "caused a great stir inside Microsoft" or even "forced the product team to rethink their strategy" or some other highfalutin, self-serving explanation.
3) Despite the excellent quality which will undoubtedly manifest itself in future releases, a glowing Supersite review will never be posted without some fly in the ointment - one or two personal peeves that the lumbering giant just can't seem to get right (mainly because the entire Media Center team, thankfully, isn't a blithering sycophant to Mr. Thurrott's mindless armchair quarterbacking).

I'm constantly amazed at the poor quality of Mr. Thurrott's writing. Would someone please smack him upside the head and remind him that quality trumps quantity (or speed of publication, for that matter) any day? Some examples:

"what I'm calling Media Center Vista (there won't be any dedicated Media Center Edition in the Vista product family)"

From where does he get this information? SKU specifics have not been announced, which means it's all hearsay anyway. I hope he's not basing this statement on the simple fact that he's only seen Media Center features in the Ultimate SKU. Lighten up there buddy, and quit misrepresenting your malformed personal opinions as fact.

"In Media Center Vista, the playing video (or photo slideshow) is superimposed over the back of the current screen"

Does he have any idea what the word superimpose means? Could he make an effort to use it properly? Merriam-Webster offers this definition: "to place or lay over or above something." So what Mr. Thurrott is really saying is "the playing video ... is placed or laid over or above the back of the current screen." What he's attempting to say is that the new Media Center action is superimposed on the playing video: Video in back, current action superimposed on top.

My advice to you, Charlie, and to your dear readers, is to pay no attention to the black hole of logical thought and reason that is Mr. Thurrott. Let him kick up all the sand he wants. It's time for the other kids to find another playground.

Brad C.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:11:59 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I'm glad Paul takes the time to give us his frank and honest opinion -- it spurs us to make products even better. We may not always agree with *how* a particular person states something, but *what* they say can be valuable feedback, and shouldn't be ignored or surpressed. Personally, I'll keep reading (and linking to) Paul's articles.

Brad, what's your opinion of the new user experience? Like It? Love It? Tolerate It? Hate It? Remember to give us specifics! :-)

Charlie Owen

Thursday, October 20, 2005 7:27:12 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I really don't have a problem with the current UI. What I do have a problem with is the usability of the primary function of my MCE in the first place, the performance of playing music. I really don't have a very large library. It is not quite 8,000 songs and it takes FOREVER to the Artists or Albums page to load. I realize the Media Player is the back end and you might be at the mercy of its limitations but I sure don't have the same problem browsing the exact same library with iTunes. Needless to say I don't listen to tunes to much on my MCE anymore :(

Eric Williams

Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:36:16 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I don't have the Vista build so my comments are from the screenshots:
It takes more clicks to get to Radio
How does the logical groupings that you use 'Music & Radio' 'Photos & Videos' cope with my second most used category Music Videos?
Have you removed the 'Restart Delete Done' at the end of each?
Can we now play and build (in MCE)'Music Video' playlists?
The navigational items no longer being on a constant background colour are lost against some album covers.
Hitting 'down down down down' is quicker than 'down right down'
Original music library gives title on all visible albums not just highlighted one.
Why not build in the Classic view as an option as well - been done many times before.
What has happend to the time?
There are a lot of blurry screens - why not give an option for the degree of 'blur' 0 to 1 then users could have the choice of say just menus or menus and albums fully visible - this would have accesibilty issues as well.

Good work guys - keep the previews coming ...

And as an aside does the new Sony Jukebox work with any MCE?

Jim M

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:31:14 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I'm hoping to post on this at some point shortly as well. Unfortunately my blog is down right now (daily bandwidth exceeded). I'm trying to switch hosting providers but it's been taking a few days.

It seems like Paul's beef is basically about the design aesthetic and user experience with the new layout. I think you've done a good job Charlie, especially of laying out the old vs. new design side by side.

You are also right about the beta build being really too unstable at this point to adequately give a fair review on the user experience.

1. I personally think it's wrong for Thurrott to say something like, "what was once easy to use is now indecipherable." Paul shame on you. You should know better. It's BETA software. It's not supposed to work. BETA Paul, beta.

2. I personally like the new design much much better (which is all you can probably adequately address at this point). I think the album artwork in thumbnail looks really cool. It kind of reminds me of Flickr a little bit actually. I think the design work is strong and you've taken something that was pretty plain before and made it look more engaging and exciting. But take a look at the screen shots yourself.

I think that in his zest to be the "first" out with a review on Media Center in Vista Paul has unfairly critiqued functionality that very well may be quite different when the final product is shipped.

Hope to have more later.

Thomas Hawk

Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:33:43 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

-Will we be able to skin the UI?

-Can the recorded tv portion use more of the screen? [I've always liked the TiVo now playing screen and don't find 'Recorded TV' very friendly to my eyes]

-HDTV support. I guess this has to be through cablecard but for me, this is the killer app.

-Thoroughly distributed media throughout the house by using extenders [I want to stream archived DVDs, possibly upconverted to another HD TV in the house]

-Online spotlight: Will there be any HD support? I have a smallish SD TV that I use to watch Online Spotlight via an extender and find the video quality so pixelated, that I barely ever use the feature.

Right now, I don't find any overly compelling reasons to keep my media center setup:

-For HD recording, I'm using my SA8300HD [possibly the worst interface in the world]

-For SD recording, I'm using MCE but I found the TiVo interface much easier to navigate and more user friendly [downside: monthly charges for guide data. upside: very little noise, my MCE box is way too loud]

-For DVD streaming, I'm using a Mediagate MG-35 [As far as I can tell, I can't nor will I ever be able to stream DVDs to my extender]

-Distributed audio: I'm using a Squeezebox2 with Slimserver 6.1 running on my MCE box. I like this because I don't have to turn my TV on to listen to music

Am I demanding too much of the MCE platform or is it possible to have it do everything I would like it to? [My hope was to have my MCE box doing all of the above as well as doing home automation through z-wave]

Fred Rubin

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:19:36 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I think Paul is right on - things have gone horribly awry. The UI is getting busier and busier, and the wrong things (i.e., seeing more at once, looking pretty at a glance) are being privileged, while I don't see much attention to the right things (i.e., I wanna play some Pink Floyd; I wanna hear some jazz).

The iPod interface is dirt simple, and not coincidentally also the most successful one-handed music interface out there. When I look at that pile of albums, with no text until you select them with the remote, it makes me want to run screaming. I posted a long-ish comment in a previous thread (the one on Paul's review of Emerald), but having thought about it, I think the core of the problem is this: MCE is paying WAY too much attention to albums, probably because albums have graphics to go along with them.

Here's a simple question that hits at the heart of things, I think: have you ever, EVER gone to someone's house and seen them sort their CDs by album title? When you go to a record store and look in the jazz section, is it EVER organized by album? No on both counts: people organize around artists, even if by artists within a genre. So why in the world is MCE focusing so much on albums, other than the pretty graphics?!? Why, when going to My Music, do we see 27 tiny pictures rather than a list that will help us quickly find what we want to hear?

I like pretty things, I do, but MCE is pretty enough without so damn many pictures getting in the way. Seriously, guys, ask yourself: if I organized a record store in this manner, would it have more or fewer customers? And pasting all of the albums for sale to the wall, butted up next to one another, alphabetically by album, would be a great way to drive people out. Organizing around artists and genres, and letting people see the pictures *once they've gotten where they want to go*, should be the route you take. When things in the real world are so firmly established, and work so well, why turn them upside down?

Scott

Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:38:38 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

From Thomas' post:

"I personally like the new design much much better (which is all you can probably adequately address at this point). I think the album artwork in thumbnail looks really cool. It kind of reminds me of Flickr a little bit actually."

No disrespect, but this is exactly the problem. Yes, it looks cool, but who cares? Form HAS TO follow function - if it looks cool but is less usable, it's gotta go. And I have a trillion record store out there saying that organizing by a list of artists, or genres then artists, works better.

Scott

Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:53:34 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Basically I think what it needs is a customizable default sort method. That way everyone can have it the way they want it.

One thing I'd like to see personally is a little more space between the each cover art thumbnail. It looks a tad bit messy and maybe even a little daunting or overwhelming.

MattP

Thursday, October 20, 2005 7:01:28 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Personally I can understand the software is beta and will likely change heavily by mid 2006. I like the way things seem to be heading and the album view is definitely shaping up to be interesting. I can't wait to be able to use the TV stuff :)

Tom Warren

Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:18:29 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

If you guys or gonna do the album like that then aleast put a little more space between each album. Also make the text on the front page bigger are make it so that you get more 3D effects when you scroll up or down.

One feature i would like to see is, when you push the up button while watching tv the program info comes up and pushing the right arrow button you get info of what's coming up next.

Yardman

Friday, October 21, 2005 1:28:38 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I'm not sure about everyone else, but the main function of my Media Center is TV recording/viewing and DVD viewing. Those album covers are nice to look at, but if you're going for visual effect then I hope you're adding this same type of sorting and selecting method to the Recorded TV feature as well. A small video window similiar in size to the album covers, with a clip of each recorded TV show playing inside of the window of course. Let me sort those by Title, Day, Network, Genre...things like that. I can't say I have ever wanted to sort my music Albums by Year, but my TV shows by Season or Episode might be useful. I have a Panasonic DVR that has something like this called Direct Navigator, and it shows about 6 or 8 video thumbnails of recorded shows stored on the HD. The current MCE only gives me a list of TV show names. I've heard a lot of buzz about this Aero interface, lets see what it can do! This kind of visual effect would also be a natural evolution for the My DVD's feature that was just added to MCE XP. These music features are ok, but an iPod can do everything with digital music already. Media Center should be on the cutting edge of digital.

Of course, you could always do what Microsoft did to alleviate Win2K users fears when XP was released...include a "Media Center Classic" menu setting in MCE Vista :)

VideoJames

Friday, October 21, 2005 2:07:12 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

From a artistic standpoint I REALLY like the new look. I do agree with some of the above comments on how sorting by artist should be a bit more important than sorting by album. This is especially true for me because I have a LOT of music that isn't tied directly to an Album. And it seems like 99% of the time when I go to listen to music I don't know what I want so the browsing feature is extremely important to me. I would just like to see a good way to browse by Artist and even Song (genre).

While the 'look' and 'feel' is important to me one thing is even more important, performance. The one lil issue I've had with MCE as much as I love it is at times it can just get a little sluggish. I've only fired up MCE in the latest Vista beta a few times and it was too buggy on my PC to really sink my teeth into so I can't really comment a lot on the new version. On MCE 2005 thou even on a HT 3Ghz cpu and 9600Pro there are times MCE feels a bit win98ish. What I mean is you have to wait on a menu to open, a video to start playing and everyone knows the pains of having a large music library.

BenT

Friday, October 21, 2005 3:08:55 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

How about MHEG5 Profile 1.06 support for the UK so we can use interactive and teletext services on Digital TV (DVB-T) known here as Freeview and support for free to air satellite (at least) via DVB-S known as Sky?

Im not keen on the clock being missing from the interface and it doesnt feel very clear weher the navigation is when in music library etc.

I'd also like to see Now and Next information (scrollable by using Up and Down keys) when you press the INFo button on a TV channel.

Lastly, to read the 1st 8 days of EPG information from over the air (DVB-T) from the broadcasters stream than rely on the internet downloads. The last 6 days could be read from internet data (if available to MCE) which would make 14 days EPG, and 8 days EPG if the user had no internet connection.

Nathan

Friday, October 21, 2005 9:28:16 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Hi, I've tried vista mce and I hated the start menu of vista, I really prefer the actual start menu of windows media center, if Microsoft is really going forward like this, I hope there's a way to go back to the windows mce 2005 start menu, just like it was done when going from the start menu in windows 95, to the start menu in windows xp, letting people choose.

Nuno Silva

Friday, October 21, 2005 9:57:16 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

The one question that pops in to my mind first is with Horizontal Scrolling.

Will I have to hit the "right" button to go all the way through or will there be a "page right" feature like the "page down" feature?

Keith

Friday, October 21, 2005 11:39:29 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I think the main thing that Media Center is missing and a MCE developer dismissed while being interviewed by Ian Dixon on the "Media Center Show" Podcast is the ability to compute one one monitor, while watching a movie or TV (recording) on another monitor or TV. We really need two mouse drivers. One for the regular mouse and the other for the remote control.

Sure you can do both tasks by buying a MCE extender, but that's an extra unnecessary expense which over complicates matters. End users really want to multi-task on only ONE machine. MCE Extenders are great if you want to extend your MCE experience to multiple rooms, but if you want to compute AND enjoy your media all within the same room, then if you bought a $2000+ MCE computer it should be able to handle 2 people using the computer at the same time: 1 person watching TV and the other person doing regular computing tasks (working in MS Word, PhotoShop, etc.)

That's the major thing that needs to be fixed in my opinion. All other things are just tweaks and "nice to haves". For example, picture-and-picture TV viewing capability, news/stock RSS-enabled tickers while watching TV, alarm clock, view TV recordings by show/season, view thumbnails of TV recordings by pictures which can be modified by the user, play user-specified default song/playlist automatically when showing a photo slideshow, video playlists to show music videos at random, search for movies by title that are NOT within the current downloaded guide (you can do this by actor/director, but you can not do this by movie title), easier way to fast forward to a future date within the downloaded TV Guide listings, etc.

Again these features would be great to have in the next release; however, the main things is to fix it so 2 people can use the same machine at the same time.

Jaxim

Saturday, October 22, 2005 4:12:51 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I second those who say that usabililty is more important than style. That said, the "all album art" look of Vista is a step backwards in usabiility. We need the album title IN TEXT underneath each album cover! You can't always tell from looking at an album cover what album it is you're looking at. It's not so much that there's no space between the covers (although I agree with those that say a little white space is a good thing), it's that we need AT A GLANCE the important text information for each album -- title and artist. The more complete information for a highlighted title is nice, but we need to see the key info for each album onscreen at the same time. The new interface is actually too visual; text is actually a very efficient way to convey many types of important information.

Michael Miller

Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:13:14 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I like the new look and while i haven't used it yet, it looks a little easier to navigate but I do have a few commments. First, the color is a little drab and depressing. Second,I would like to see the UI more icon based and less text based, it would be nice to see something like the Album view moved to the start menu and have icons represent the options rather than text. It seems like this method would be quicker to navigate too because you would be able to move left right up and down and could fit more options in. Third I think you could fit a few more rows in there and make the text at the bottom and top only one row and a little larger or alternatively appear directly under the album that is currently selected. As for the artist view, I think it would be nice to use the "stacks" option to represent them until the user selects the artist. Forth, I didn't see any options to sort by song rather than album, maybe alphabetically? Last i would like to use gadgets in media center. It would be nice to create a ticker below my video feeds or have notification pop up when i recieve email. Of course, it would have to be easy to turn them off when I am watching movies. Any how, it is interesting to see how this is coming and is looking really impressive. Keep up the good work! PS sorry if this is a duplicate post i tried to post earlier but it didn't seem to take.

Evilsushi

Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:56:52 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

CableCARD...period. You folks always deliver a great interface, so I'm not worried about that. The rollup2 disappointment must not be repeated and you must deliver CableCARD in order to have any hope for MCE to live on.

Ray Kuss

Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:57:47 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I feel the only real feature that is going to cause Media Center to sink or swim in the U.K is as Nathan said

"MHEG5 Profile 1.06 support for the UK so we can use interactive and teletext services on Digital TV (DVB-T) known here as Freeview and support for free to air satellite (at least) via DVB-S known as Sky?"

I believe that the native support of digital sattelite is a must for the near future. The current way of connecting a Digital signal via analogue capture and using the IR blasters is just too messy and unreliable to be acceptable to most people. Also with the recent boom in HD Plasma and LCD panels in the U.K the picture quality available through this method is going to become even less accaptable than it is now.

I would personally ne happy to see the interface stay the same and the time and effort saved be used to implement the features that we have been asking for since MCE 2004.

Saying that i do very much like the new interface, i feel it is good not to sit on your lorrels and try to move the product forward and stop it from stagnating.

Cheers

Gareth

P.S, the bot fignting code on this page has just come up as BJ ELF, sorry i know it's immature but that's quite funny ;)

Gareth Jeanne

Saturday, October 22, 2005 3:06:21 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I also agree with Nathan and Gareth. I would be great to be able to view dvt-s directly also it'd be nice to be able to combine types of tuners - e.g. dvb-t and dvb-s, this seems to a common request in europe.

I think Nathans point about being able to see what's coming up without going to the guide is really good. Pressing up and down, left and right currently do nothing while watching live tv, so make use of the buttons and give us the ability to move up and down the channels to see what's on (not changing channels just displaying data from the epg, and also the ability to see programs coming up later) This is something that SKY in the UK have and it's so much slicker than having to go into the guide all the time.

I think these features would be what's required to convert me from using mce part-time to full-time.

Andrew Moore

Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:03:41 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Like some have said before, I haven't had hands-on experience with "Vista Media Center" so these comments are effectively based on the screenshots.

The interface looks very smart - different, but still very smart. No-one likes change, and I suspect that a lot of people's comments on the change are based on that motif. Having said that, as has already been stated, I am not worried about the interface. Having been with Media Center from the start I have seen the program go from strength to strength, and the UI has been no exception - I am certain that the UI we get in Vista will be the best yet.

But (there's always a caveat :P), I am slightly concerned about the progression of the "categorisation" or logical structure of MCE. It is becoming increasingly obvious that Media Center is being used for more than just music and family pictures/video clips, but for the watching of DVD's that have been archived on a server, or for watching TV shows or films that have been purchased and downloaded - MCE (at present) seems not to reflect this shift in consumer usage.

Therefore, if I could influence the design of Vista MCE I would have to re-categorise the media MCE allows you to play. Firstly, I would have to change the initial categories that MCE gives you on the Start menu.

The "My Music" component would remain and is something that MCE gets right over and over and so (with the exception of faster loading of the music database) would receive no real changes. "My TV" is also fantastic, along with the "Play DVD"/"My DVD's" and "My Pictures" components. I would also keep the "My Videos" component as is, but would change it's emphasis to highlight that it is not for playing TV Shows or Movies, but for playing home videos.

Then I would add a component (or perhaps two seperate components) that allow users to play their movies and TV shows in much the same way they can their music. This component would use a "meida library" the same way the music component does, and would allow searching, sorting by genre, actor, year, etc, hopefully re-inventing video storage the way "My Music" did for MP3's.
This new component would allow movies and TV shows to be specified seperately, so you could organise videos for a certain TV show into its own item and then group those videos into their respective seasons (e.g., a TV Show is like an Artist in "My Music", with Seasons appearing under that TV Show like Albums do under an artist).

It should be pointed out that this component would be used for playing video files as opposed to DVD's - the two would be treated as distinct media in MCE. The "My DVD's" component (as introduced in Media Center 2005 Rollup 2) would handle DVD's in exactly the same way it does now (but with an easier way of specifying using ISO's on local/network storage), whilst the new "TV Shows & Movies" component would organise individual video files.

Secondly I would consider whether or not to group certain items together on the Start menu (as you appear to have done in Vista MCE). If items were grouped, I would put Music and Radio together (as you have in Vista MCE) as this is a logical approach. I would also put the Pictures and Videos components together (again as you have in Vista MCE) because it again is a logical approach. The new TV Shows and Movies module would have to be grouped with the TV module (in much the same way Music is grouped with Radio). Finally I would place My DVD's on its own, but would perhaps rename it, as it can be used for any form of disc-changing (including Audio-CD's, Audio-DVD's, Video-CD's, and in the future, HD-DVD's).

I noticed in the new 'Start' menu that there is an option called "Movies and DVD's" which is seperate to the "Pictures and Videos" category - this initially seems a step in the right direction (assuming it works how I imagine) but I hope you go the full distance down this path and deliver at least something similar to the above approach.

My appologies for rambling for so long, but this is something that has been bugging me for a while now, so I couldn't miss the chance to write it somewhere where it could possibly be read by the people who count.

Cheers,

Simon

Simon Peckmore

Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:09:10 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Well, I haven't been to test Vista MCE yet - but from the screenshots above, I think the new UI looks great!

But I have to agree with Scott: Viewing your music by albums shouldn't be the default way... No one sorts their cd's this way - focus should be on artists. This way, all the songs that aren't part of an album stands out better... I hate the fact of having an "Unknown Artist" album everytime I enter My Music...

Also, for us Europian users: We need PDC!!! A game, whether it's soccer or a late night football game from the NFL, often doesn't finish on time (compared with the guide data), and having to set MCE to record the game and the following two shows just to be sure you don't miss the final touchdown or an overtime goal is practical at all... It's a must have for my $2000+ MCE, as almost any $50 VCR in Europe comes with it!

And the final thing I (as I'm a .NET developer) need is: A decent SDK so that I'm not stock with the horrible HTML-way of extending MCE with my own programs. This is without a doubt the single most important thing for me. With all the animations going on when using the MCE's built in functionality, it simply looks pathetic when I enter my own programs (and Online Spotlight)...

Thanks,
Kenneth

Kenneth

Sunday, October 23, 2005 11:26:29 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I'd make a couple of comments.

1) The broken bit of MCE's My Music is search speed. I also use iTunes, and the results of a search appear as you key the terms in; with MCE you watch that twirly thing for what feels like minutes (18k tracks in db). I know a lot of Vista is about optimising search, so I have high hopes.

2) The no-text all-art interface is worrying. I spent many, many hours getting artwork on as many of my albums as I can, and still I have many many CDs with no art - mainly compilations. If you're going to take this approach then you need to build an album art tool into MCE. WMP10 is hopeless at finding art from tracks ripped in another application. But more fundamentally, I down't instantly recognise the artwork for all my albumns and the etxt cue is useful; essential even.

Nothing to do with My Music, but can you please add the TiVo feature of being able to dump the TV buffer to a recording, ie you start watching something as live TV, decide you want to keep it, press record. On TiVo, the entire programme (so long as you are within the first half hour) gets saved; with MCE you only get from when you hit record.

Interface wise, I still struggle with the two column approach, on many screens I want pressing down repeatedly to take me down the leftmost options but when you reach the bottom instead of going back to the top of the left column, I want it to go to the top of the right, so I just hold the down key to scroll down the media list, not right key then hold the down key.

Stuart Anderton

Monday, October 24, 2005 3:33:59 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I'd like to see better support for multiple tuners. Having 4 tuners in my machine and only 1 Cable STB (hopefully CableCard in the next version) I can't watch my digital channels with MCE. I use my TiVo for that.

The next version should allow me to choose which tuner to use for what recordings. Let's say I want to record something on digital channel 919, it should let me choose to use the tuner that has the STB connected, so when the show comes on and MCE tries to record the show, it will only use the STB. If a show comes on channel 4, it should use the other tuners first so that in the event it needs to record a digital channel, that tuner will be available. Maybe even allow we to reserve a tuner for recording digital channels.

Along those lines, If I want 4 tuners with a CableCard, will I need 4 CableCards or will that 1 CableCard authorize all 4 tuners?

Another nice to have would be to be able to use the left button to go to the previous menu (like TiVo). With Tivo you can go almost everywhere by simply using arrows and the select/enter key. With MCE, you also need the back button. If you are targeting easy of usability, remove the need for the back button. That's the first thing people mention when I try to move them to MCE after gettting them to TiVo.

However, don't get me wrong. I am very happy with what Microsoft has done with MCE and I use MCE about 90% of the time (TV, Music, Videos..even FM Radio). My MCE machine would completely replace the TiVo if I could use the STB.

surge

Monday, October 24, 2005 10:20:18 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Ability to record unencrypted QAM would be one of the hugest selling points. OTA is great, but the flakyness and for some people inability to even get OTA for HD makes it very limited. However, unencrypted QAM support would expose HD content to large people. Obviously, Cablecard would be a plus on top of that as well.

Thanks!

Russ

Russell Wong

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:52:05 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I haven't tried the new features in MCE Vista but by the screenshots it does look pretty sleak! I love that you (Microsoft) finally will get rid of the, oh soo ugly, blue skin. And I love the more dynamic looks of the menus, more of those. The static views might use less computer power but is not very wow-ish! Finally, yeah finally, you got rid of those MY-words in front of every single text... good job!
By the way... I'm a Swedish user that really want to get my hands on MCE Vista. So please get a hold of me and send me a copy ASAP! /Jimmy

Jimmy Westberg

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:32:24 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Same as other have suggested.

A user views their album covers by Artist not CD names. Look at your collection of CDs do you have them sorted by CD title or by artist.

If you want to make it pretty then enhance the thumbnail view you see of your music collection in explorer where it sorts them by 'Artist->Album'

andre patton

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:32:40 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I could work out any interface you make and use it fine but that’s not what I would like for media centre, Its my Girlfriend, Mum, Mates that need to be able to pick up the remote and get to what they want to do intuitively. Maybe get a sample of computer illiterate people, sit them in front of the remote with some basic tasks to complete and take notes. For a media centre interface its WAY to busy. I want to listen to my music, watch my DVD's and watch/record TV not admire the pretty background. Try getting some feed back from Crestron or AMX installers on the interface; they’ve been doing this for a long time already. On another note I will never have a pc anywhere other than my study where my media centre server with all the fans it needs can hum away all it likes. The XBXO360 will be my front end in my lounge, Home Theatre, at least one bedroom and the kitchen, you got that part RIGHT. My media centre is my media centre not my word processor or graphics station. All you need now to go along with the XBOX360 is a dedicated mediacenter non PC based box to act as the server and you will have the worlds home integration market cornered!!!

Robert S Bosnjak

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:50:34 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I like the interface. It looks slick. I echo the sentiments that it has to be fast. These days music collections of 50,000 songs are not uncommon. Currently, media center is not even usable with such a collection. This is where itunes got things right. I also would like a more intuitive way to get the my queue. Maybe have "my queue" under search on the first "my music" page. Being able to customize options would be nice. I appreciate the opportunity to give an opinion.

John Short

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:58:21 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Straight to the point:

* Faster listing of songs/albums. This really annoys my wife.
* I agree with most above, while sorting by Album looks nice, its not usable/normal.
* The ability to really customise. i.e. If you want to sort by Album, Artist, Year, Song etc then let use save some defaults.
* A nice screen saver that showed slide shows of our "My Pictures", also displayed customisable metadata, but still allowed the PC to hibernate/sleep after x hours if you want.
* More features in 'My Pictures', make slideshows, show metadata, sort by metadata not directory, really any new feautes here will be welcomed. We are encouraged to use 'My Pictures' but it really has no features.
* Ability to press STOP on LiveTV, and have it STOP buffering
* Maybe more a Media PLayer update, but a nice way to manage metadata of Music
* Ability to add a decent length of time to the end of a recording in case Big Brother runs long and means my show after also runs long.
* Ability to dump the Cache/Buffer to a Recording
* Ability to review what was on up to 24 hours ago by way of the TV guide
* This might be just me, but i really dislike the EPG data once you get more than about 6 channels of data in there. For this reason (I am in Australia so only get a few more than that to start with) I disable crap channels...
* A decent SDK
* Thumbnails of 'My Movies', and get the picture from something like 10% of the way into the file
* The Front Screen menu... Please make it all fit on 1 screen i.e. no scrolling. Maybe make them icons of somthing.
* Give us the ability to edit things, maybe with Skins. While I love the Microsoft way, I dont use Spotlight, so I want to be able to remove the link.
* Picture in Picture
* Some basic windows games would be nice to have, and not build like Solitair (outside of MCE), thats just a poor effort
* Compression of Recorded SD TV for archiving if you wish
* Sometimes it seems as MCE has trouble estimateing free disk space. i.e Sometimes it tells me something wont record, so I delete a few recordings, and it can take a while for it to work out there is now enough space to record something.. Really annoying if its just about to start.
* If i have spare HDD space, MCE should by trying to work out the sort of TV I like, and recording that stuff if I have not selected it already, and set it to overwrite if space is needed.
* RSS/Podcast
* A way to Rip (and compress a DVD) like we can with Music
* Answering Machine
* Not sure if you have this already - But, have a Vista Server with MCE and Tuners, and a Vista client that can use the server for all content and EPG scheduling. This way plug-ins and decoding of DVD/DIVX can be done in my lounge room.
* DivX/XViD in extenders
* A calander, linked to outlook would be nice, so my Wife cant tell me I have no reason for forgetting dinner with the Jones'... with reminders like outlook
* A list of contacts, once again linked to Outlook would be nice
* I dont often watch live TV, but a Reminder that something is about to start would be nice. i.e. I can say instead of Record this show, just remind me its on. Could work with outlook calander above
* A way to skip - like i have seen in the smartskip2.wmv file.. however you dont always want this, as with sports recordings it could give away the result, so it needs to be selectable.

I think thats about it. Thanks, and good luck, I love MCE and my Wife is adicted. Even without the list above we wouldnt give it up.

Greg

Friday, October 28, 2005 12:32:49 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Hi Charlie,

I feel like your defense of the UI is problematic of the approach that is being taken. You start by saying that the basic indicator of usability is the number of steps required to access a function. While this is clearly somewhat true, it's not the only criteria, and for a living room experience device, not the most important one. To my mind, simplicity is the most important element, and the current Media Center does a fantastic job of of presenting a clean, straightforward, attractive interface. So much so, that I could hardly believe it was a Microsoft interface (there's my backhanded compliment of the day).

But when I look at the new version, it's dramatically busier than the old interface. Just take the background image, for example. Whoever replaced a plain blue with those white blobs really doesn't get it. And on first glance, the new music interface, while seeming a little more modern than the old interface, feels overwrought.

"Overwrought" is, of course, extremely subjective and vague, but here to I believe you're missing the point. You can go on all day about how the new design gives you more information and better accessibility to features, but I think this is why Apple's OS look is often compared favorably to XP, despite quite a lack of features on Apple's side (as I learn every day, having recently purchased a G5 for video editing).

I'm writing this a bit in frustration, as I've been planning on replacing my parent's HD Tivo with a Media Center. I only recently got into Media Center, and have been having a blast. I show it off to my friends, I evangelize them on it. Right now, with stable hardware it definitely passes the parent test. I'm really hoping that the new version keeps up that tradition.

A few other points...
1) I was amazed at the bad mouthing of Thurrot. Does anybody know of a better site to keep up with MS offerings? Sure, he's aggrandizing, but that's also another way of saying effective self promotion.
2) This whole "oh, it's beta, it's not our best foot forward" attitude is crap. You put out the beta to get feedback on the project. While I don't expect you to commit seppuku based on negative comments, I also expect you to take negative comments as they come and consider them carefully.
3) I haven't participated in the beta of Media Center in the past, but I have participated in Windows, Office, and others. My perception is that beta feedback is solicited primarily for code issues, not design. I've seen at least three times when Office rolled out some new feature, the users all cried, filed bug reports, and lamented about it in the beta forums, and nothing ever changed. In fact, I can't remember from an Office beta when the design changed as a result of beta feedback. Of course, you shouldn't consider the comments of a few of us as being indicative, but I hope to see extensive polling on the UI elements of Media Center in the beta, and hope that you will pay them heed, rather than assuming that we'll all just come to love it.

Russell

Friday, October 28, 2005 6:11:07 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I don't have the beta but from the screenshots and comments above, here are my two cents:

Comments:
I really like the way the new UI looks. I always thought there was too much dead space on some of the MCE 2005 menus. Also, I never liked using green for cursor selection. I like the way you incorporated the glass and focus effects.

Recommendations/Wishes:
(I don't know if some of these features are said to be in Vista MCE or if there are plugins so I am sorry in advance if I am redundant)

1. Better EPG/TV View: Be able to view part of the EPG while watching TV. Like 2/3 TV show, 1/3 EPG like Comcast and DirectTV have. How about making the EPG part transparent? Or you can make the currently playing tv/video larger when looking at other menus.

2. Better network media support: Adding a shared folder works well. However, it would be nice to be able to set the shared folders in settings and MCE will search, index, and categorized media in those shared folders. The search can be done manually or set on a schedule.

3. My Media Menu: Where you can view all the media in your media library. It will allow you to search and sort all the media regardless of type (recorded tv, music, dvds, videos). Arranging them into categories to view (My Music, My Tv, etc.) is great but I think it would be cool to view all media based on a search criterion. Example:
My Media Search for "Metallica"
"...And Justic for All" - Music Album
"Load" - Music Album
"Some Kind of Monster" - DVD
"Behind the Music: Metallica" - Recorded TV

4. Web Portal: I don't know if this is a plugin or not but I hate going from the nice MCE interface to my desktop to look at a website. At 1080i, even with large fonts, it can be hard to see. It would be great add like MCE Internet Explorer to web browse through a MCE-like interface. The remote keyboard was designed nicely so I think it would fit in well.

5. Invisible Downloaded Content: I love the content on Online Spotlight but I wish it could be make more task oriented instead of vendor oriented. I realized this may be hard to do with companies and such. However, when I want to download movies on-demand, each vendor has its own interface. I wish there was a menu like "Get Media" where you can search for whatever movie/show/music to download and MCE shows the results with prices, vendor, etc. This way I can search for a movie with one shot instead of openning CinemaNow then MovieLink.

6. Multi User Remote Desktop: When I do some maitenance on my MCE machine, I wish I could remote in from my office computer while my wife still watches her recorded CSI episodes.

7. Channel Preview: Have a menu or EPG where it shows live tv from several channels on one screen. You can scroll through them and the one in focus enables the sound from this channel and displays the show info. This is similar to DirectTV Sunday ticket where it shows all the games at one.

8. Better Marketing: This may be worked into Xbox360 and Vista but when I mention to friends and family the things I can do with my MCE, they are amazed and act like they never knew a product like this existed. However, they can tell me all this stuff they have heard about iPod and iTunes. They know you can download videos from Apple and watch On-Demand movies from Comcast but don't know you can do all that with Online Spotlight. Maybe the MCE has been primarely a geek project but I think it is ready for prime time.

Those are my thoughts. Thanks for all the MCE information.

Jon D

Monday, October 31, 2005 5:08:13 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Just another vote for what was already been pointed out by posters such as Rusty W and ScottGS: Sort by Album is not really useful - Sort by Artist and Genre are much more important; ability to select a default Sort view (Artist, Genre, Playlists, etc...); the screen seems getting too "design-y" at the expense of actual utilty (ie: no text under the album names, horizontal scrolling); much faster library performance should be prioritzed; put Playlists back under My Music area.

Couple of other suggestions: accelerated scrolling when moving through large libraries (a la iPod); a much easier way to pull up the Music Queue; ability for the My Pictures slideshow to automatically 'crop' pictures so they show without side-banding (a la PhotoStory3); allow a way to choose default music or playlist for Slideshows.

Finally, I agree that harshing on Paul Thurrot (and his writing style) is misdirected. I find his reviews pretty informative and helpful.

Mike Smith

Monday, October 31, 2005 10:14:26 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I agree with Russell that fewer clicks isn't the most important thing for me. I like the aesthetics of MCE 2005 and I really don't like the aesthetics of MCE Vista. The UI looks busier and more complex. BTW, I like the green focus. In general I don't like Vista's toned down scroll buttons and marquee UI elements. I use the scroll bar button location and size to tell me where I am in a large doc (or web page) and how big the doc (or web page) is. If I have to strain to see the darn thing, it isn't that usable IMO. I use a 25 inch TV in my bedroom connected to an MCX and from the bed, I'll guarantee that I'll have a hard time seeing the fancy, rounded, clearish focus UI on context menus whereas the green is easy to see.

Keith Hill

Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:09:14 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

personally i like the look but why don't you just give several options on the look instead of just one. We are all different and you will never please everone.

Evilsushi

Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:25:22 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Hi there,

I've been using my ATI video card for about 3 years now, it's an All In Wonder version. When I wish to record something off when watching the TV mode on my computer, I press one single button on my remote control that comes with the unit, and it starts to record.

MCE 2005 is totally in the dark ages I feel on this topic. I absoutely want an *Instant Record" option in MCE2006 or whatever it is going to be called. I'll admit I'm a new user and have only been using MCE2005 for a few months, however I think I use it enough to give good input.

When I'm sitting here watching TV, and want to quickly record something, MCE needs me to press TWO buttons on the remote to get it to record.... darn it, all if I press "record" I want it to record and record now ! get what I mean ? :-)

The record button on my mce remote ( official ms model ) should be programmed so it can "instant record" , yes sure, it's nice being able to
also tell it to record something at a specific time, but that for me is secondary, as I record many things from the news, and want it to do it quickly.

I also want the next version of MCE to record to other formats, especially .mpg .... but if that isn't possible, please please build in a converter, or at least an option of what format we wish to record in !

ATI has been doing this for years --- I can select what format I wish to record in, mpg, .avi , .wmv ... so how come such a new program such as mce2005 can't do this ? ... it really puzzles me.

Mark

Mark

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:05:36 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I have read the articles which focus mostly on the UI. While opinions may vary, I think when it comes out we will love it. MS has done a great job with the UI so far, so nothing leads me to belives that the Vista UI would be a step in the wrong direction.

What does bother me is the lack of info on archived dvd's which lay on hard drives. This is obviosly a huge thing for those of us who want our "Media Everywhere". Will Vista address this issue? Will there be native support for a menu based DVD movie section? The DVD changer is yesterdays news. Hard drive based dvd movies is the future.

And what about those of us who want to place a MCE in different rooms? Will there be native support for syncing recorded tv from multiple MCE machines as well as music, photos etc? Please don't answer with get an extender! An extender has no support for streaming dvd movies, and some of us would prefer a full blown pc in some rooms.

I think the UI will complete itself and there are more pressing issues that very few have weighed in on at this point. Forget the secrets. At this point we need to know what this thing will and will not do. We need difinitive answers not the usual walk arounds.

greg

Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:12:07 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

The all-in-one multimedia experience for all people, using diffent hardware and media formats is an onerous task at best! Each version of the software is improving, and i look forward to viewing the next release.

I like MCE 2005's clean interface. However it didnt take full advantage of the 16:9 display format, particularly on the welcome menu.

Asthetics:
Themes would be a great way for people to cumtomise their media centre. It is afterall an integral part of a homes decor.

Pehaps a view mode option eg. Standard/Detailed would keep different user groups happy.
My experience is that you only use 40% of the options 90% of the time.

Functionality:
The ability to queue movies! I have music videos that i wish to play one after another, like audio tracks.

An interface to correct album/cover art errors. E.g. a database integrity check 'windows found issues with the following files/folders, please use the XYZ wizard to manually correct it'.

Performance:
No easy option to go into standby after recording. Issues with wakeup recording also. The PC should not have to be on all the time to insure non corrupt recordings.

Speeding up the search engine for tracks/albums artists etc. Would MSDE provide that?

Better compression of recorded shows, eg the option of a nightly compression task which converts DVR to divx?

Better software for burning content to cd\dvd. i have found the sonic software problematic, and i usually resort the faithful nero to get the job done.

HDTV audio support for Australia!!!!!! our broadcasters use AC3 to transmit HD audio. I have AC3 decoder sofware for other content, and my TV tuners softare (DVICO) does it also, but inside media center - no dice.

Thanks for listening,
Regards,
Richard Costelloe

Richard

Sunday, November 27, 2005 11:28:26 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I have to generally agree with what Paul was trying to point out about the way Media Center appears to be heading;

1) The Interface GUI aspect of this version in Vista looks terrible, and busy looking - to a novice 'New to MCE user' it could be a real put off. For me it just looks ugly in itself.

2) I noticed on the right click type menus the highlighted text appears in like a glass blue type effect which I dont like either the current green animated highlighted text menu looks better more visible and more attractive.

3) I hope the star menu page will change a bit I think this could do with more ? it seems when theres an object selected such as in the screenshot My Music's selection box seems a little too big for no apparent reason.

Wheres the shutdown box gone ?! - how do you exit from MCE or shutdown from here

JMHO - thanks

Catherine

Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:55:23 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Hi Charlie,

I more or less must agree with Paul as well. I mean, sure, Paul was a bit harsh considering he was reviewing a beta, but... From the screenshots you provided, it seems to me that you guys have lost site of (what I perceive to be) the endgame here: a consumer electronics product. A very powerful one, yes - but a device that just does the job nonetheless, not one that shouts out how powerful or flashy or flexible it is. This isn't a corporate computer where you have IT pros supporting users and devices, where many folks want all the buttons and business and flexibility. You're in the living room now, which means the KISS principle applies to very great degree. The device must, **must** be simple to use and robust. This means the interface cannot be overly busy, and must be easy to get around. MCE '04 and '05 are fine examples - great work, by the way. Vista seems to me very busy and a bit ugly. For my part, I must have album titles under each album. This is far more important than the pretty album cover. I don't care if I can see more covers on a single screen. The art is no help - I need titles. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here.

I've been an MCE user for two years, and in spite of enormous frustrations am still a huge fan. I've told my many friends who've seen my system (connected to a 50" plasma, btw!) that it's fabulous, but certainly not for the non-techie - that in short it's not ready for prime time. I think it's close though: greater stability, speed (in Music, of course), and near-zero need for professional intervention, and you're there. I think the next step is to make the thing absolutely idiot-proof. I'd worry far more about that than adding new features. I say that, but you know CableCard support is an absolute necessity. So is rapid loading, searching and browsing of large music libraries. I'll tack on one feature request to boot: ability to view musician lists for albums and tracks. Liner notes would be nice too.

I hope I'm not being too critical while lacking specifics - but I do think that if you guys keep your eye on the big picture - that you're making a consumer electronics device, not an OS or UI - that the rest will naturally follow.

Thanks for this opportunity, Charlie. I really appreciate your involvement in the MCE community and your passion for MCE. You guys are gonna change the world.

Best, Tom

Tom

Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:47:52 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

Wish list:

-Better HD support (work with cable companies to allow some kind of QAM decoding of thier encrypted channels - as right now, a Media Center PC is simply an "Extra" component, as opposed to the MAIN component in most home theaters.).
Wouldn't it be great to access all of the same digital content that you can get from your digital cable box, through your HTPC instead?

-A home automation plug-in would make these machines even more useful.

-Option for high-quality audio streaming over RDP (truly access your collection from anywhere).

-Improve the music library interface. It's really poor right now, IMO. Difficult to browse, or find what you are looking for. Mainly, when using lossless WMA to rip my CD collection, it never seems to generate the song name and such...lucky if it gets the artist name..but somehow it almost always gets the cover art?? :)

-How about some shared features, like pictures for example. Imagine linking to your family members picture library and whenever they made an update/addition, you could see it. THAT would be something to help get others on the bandwagon!

Jeff Foster

Monday, December 26, 2005 9:25:27 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I'm a big fan of MCE XP and I believe that the interface is nice, simple, and clean. I dont have experience with Vista MCE, but I would like for it to have a lot of options for the power users, while maintaining usability and simplicity for the casual user. Both dumbing it down or making it overly convoluted would be bad.

Why not have give the option to the user?

Have an option for Classic (XP MCE interface) where old users can jump in easily, and its proven simplicity will make it less of a gamble upon its introduction to MCE virgins.

At the same time, have them be able to switch to Vista (modern) interface with the new and (hopefully) improved interface?

Best of both worlds, and many applications already do such a thing.

Adrien Garner

Sunday, January 01, 2006 11:30:37 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I have no Vista experience, either, but use MCE mostly for the DVR/recording aspect, as well as DVD playback and burning of recorded shows. The new build needs to be even more HD friendly and allow for HD programs to be burned. I personally got burned when I added an HD tuner to my setup and can no longer burn shows to be viewed on set-top DVD players.

I love the functionality of the guide, etc. in MCE for TV shows. Perhaps they could make it easier to burn the shows in MCE--i.e. Add a "Burn to DVD" button along with the "Play", "Delete", etc. in the show information screen.

Stephen Rutherford

Friday, January 20, 2006 11:40:39 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I have only two comments. For the love of all things holy give us list view. Thumbnails can be pretty. But seeing only parts of a filename (MCE2005) and a pretty cover thumbnail when you have close to 500 albums or videos doesn't cut it (and imagine those with even more albums or videos). And please make fast forwarding and rewinding in mp4/divx/xvid/other files possible from within MC. Jumping out of MC to use media player seems pointless when both players use directshow.

Geir Røsset

Saturday, January 28, 2006 8:58:13 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I recently bought an HP Digital Entertainment Center, used media player to rip my CDs in WMA lossless format to the c drive, and backed up the My Music folder onto an HP personal media drive (z drive). I see album art when I view the album folders on the c drive but not when I view the back-up copies on the z drive. Can anyone tell me why that is? Also, I don't yet have a media center extender, but a friend gave me a Roku M2000 which will allow me to play on my living room stereo the songs that are on my HP DEC, which for now needs to be in a different room. Can anyone advise on the pros and cons of the following options to control and play my music: (1) using media player, which I understand will work with the Roku if I download Windows Media Connect; (2) using iTunes, for which I would transcode a copy of my WMA Lossless files into AAC at roughly 192kbps; or (3) using HP Tunes, which I understand provides an interface between Media Center and iTunes? If I do import my music into iTunes, will the album covers be imported too?

Chris

Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:42:08 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

A Nice thing that should/must be added is "lyric view" when music is playing. That is not hard to be added. Also a "lyric search" engine that wold seach the net wold be cool.

I'm very certin that people wold love to read the song lyric wile music is being played.

Another stuff that I tnhik that shold be changed (I don't know if this is possible), is to take out the division on the "album artist" tag, That is not a problem to me, but I'm very confident that 90%+ of the people does not undersand that if this music tag is not right filled up on the songs of the same album, it will apear mutiple albums on the "albums view".

William

Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:00:17 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

I would like to see MCE take a more active approach on the video side of life... Where you have ipods, etc for music, you should be able to rip a copy of your dvd's to your hd so you can play them over MCE and MC Extenders and give the kaleidescape system (kaleidescape.com) a run for its $. Currently it is the only true system that aquires a license (DRM) like itunes or napster but for video files. Their system is over priced... and with many users already have MCE computers, it would allow Microsoft to gain more market share.

just my .02 worht

Trevor

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:11:00 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)

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